View Poll Results: Arod vs. Pujols

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Alex Rodriguez

    2 18.18%
  • Albert Pujols

    9 81.82%
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 15 of 15

Thread: Albert Pujols vs. Alex Rodriguez

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by The Edge View Post
    Very subjective. I don't know what WilsonC will pull up but Defensive value according to Fangraphs states he is by far the worst defensive everyday shortstop to ever play the game. The gold gloves are quite a joke.
    One thing to keep in mind is that accumulating to most negative value at something and being the worst at something are two separate things. Even if we assume the metrics are perfectly accurate, it doesn't follow that he was the worst defensive SS ever, but rather that he wasn't a very good SS but had enough positives going for him in other areas that he accumulated a lot of that negative value. Most shortstops who are mediocre to poor fielders don't have long careers at the position.

    But there's something else weird going on with Jeter's defensive numbers. If you look at rWAR's defensive component, Jeter never rates that well, but you can really break his career into three chunks:
    - As a young player (through age 24) he's about a -4 per year defender, including a -14 rookie season
    - In a five year stretch which should be his prime, he was about a -15 per year fielder from age 25 to 29
    - From age 30 and up, he's averaged about a -5

    It seems odd to think that he'd be a bit below average when he's still learning, then awful starting from when his offensive game peaked, and then a bit below average again into his 30's. Note also that while his TZ anti-peak is from 1999 to 2003, by UZR he jumps up to around average in 2002 and 2003. Odd.

    Or is it? It's a litle funny that his TZ ratings plummeted at exactly the same time as Knoblock started having his throwing problems, continued through the Soriano years, and then improved after Soriano left. Is it coincidence that his worst defensive years coincided with famously bad defensive second base performances? It seems a stretch.

    I can't be certain, but my guess is that there's something to do with how DP's are handled that's problematic within the TZ rating if there's a weak link in the DP chain.

    Outside of his anti-prime, he seems to rate a bit below average defensively, with some average seasons surrounding the anti-prime (-3 and 2 in 1997 and 1998, 0.9 to -4 in 2002 to 2004) to suggest he might well have been about average in his prime, if my theory about bad second basemen is correct. Certainly not a valid gold glover, but I'm also not sure if he's the historic defensive liability as the raw numbers suggest.

  2. #12
    To put things in perspective. No individual carries a team and no one player is solely responsible for what a team achieves or doesn't achieve. No individual players stats determine the success or failure of any team. But there is on outstanding fact that does not go away, Derek Jeter has helped his team to more World Series play and rings than Arod and Pujols combined, in about half the seasons. I'll stick with the best in game, with Jeter. To each their own.
    I apologize for bringing Jeter into thread. Arod vs. Pujols. My last word, I select Pujols over Arod. Two rings to one.
    Last edited by winningbaseball; 01-06-2012 at 12:13 PM.

  3. #13
    Hey, sorry about Jeter also. *sticks behind ear*

    As far as A Rod and Pujols goes, I was implying that they could carry a team more with the stick for a short time, not all season. I assume assumption way to much when I state a point.

    Batboy: Get a hit Crash!
    Crash: Shut up!

    Backer of Rockies and Yankees.

  4. #14
    BN Staff Member Mudge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Great Pond, Maine
    Posts
    5,151
    Quote Originally Posted by winningbaseball View Post
    To put things in perspective. No individual carries a team and no one player is solely responsible for what a team achieves or doesn't achieve.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by winningbaseball View Post
    But there is on outstanding fact that does not go away, Derek Jeter has helped his team to more World Series play and rings than Arod and Pujols combined, in about half the seasons.
    So did Posada.

    Quote Originally Posted by winningbaseball View Post
    I apologize for bringing Jeter into thread.
    Why do I get the feeling you're just kidding?
    Last edited by Mudge; 01-06-2012 at 01:34 PM.
    "I think about the cosmic snowball theory. A few million years from now the sun will burn out and lose its gravitational pull. The earth will turn into a giant snowball and be hurled through space. When that happens it won't matter if I get this guy out." Bill Lee

  5. #15
    Pujols all the way.
    Castro to Barney to Rizzo

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Official Albert Pujols Free Agency Discussion Thread
    By CoreyR in forum MLB General Discussion
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 12-26-2011, 03:30 AM
  2. Pujols Contract Talk
    By thefivepointfivehole in forum MLB General Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-15-2011, 05:11 PM
  3. Albert Pujols: First ten seasons, the best?
    By Mr. Baseball in forum MLB General Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-08-2011, 11:18 PM
  4. Fuld vs Rodriguez
    By Majestic Athletic in forum Tampa Bay Rays
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-11-2011, 11:56 PM
  5. Alex Rios/Justin Morneau
    By Vertigo O in forum Fantasy Baseball & Gaming
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-26-2011, 12:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •