Ron Santo?

[Cubs Fan]

When you hear the name Ron Santo you think regular player. He is more though. He died with diabetes. He was broadcaster with the Cubs for years. He was a player. This was a lot and he helped out in Chicago. To top that he made the All-Star game I can't remember how many times. The thing that kills him though his he only had 0 at-bats in Postseason. He, I think deserves the Hall of Fame. It has been layed off for years but now it's time

[RickD]

Ron Santo is one of those deserved players overlooked for a variety of reasons. I love stats as much as the next guy but stats are not everything.

Ron Santo played a large portion of his career in the 60's when offensive numbers were a bit lower. He played 3rd base, a position traditionally overlooked by the Hall.

I think, when considering HoF membership, voters should look at how a player performed during the era in which they played. Yes Ron had 2,200+ hits...but he also won 5 Gold Gloves for his play at 3rd base. He should get in and probably will one day. The question is "Will he get in as a player or as a broadcaster?"

[Old Sweater]

Watch Santo shoot right into the HOF, now that he has passed. Nice guy, loved baseball, better stats then a lot of HOF'ers. What is wrong with these voters?

[Cubs Fan]

I don't know, but to RickD, I think he will get in as a player.

[Mudge]

Good article here assessing the possible reasons why Santo is not in so far.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/cooperstown-confidential-why-isnt-santo-in-the-hall-of-fame/

BRIEFLY:
Santo never played a postseason game in his life.
Santo lacked a “signature” to his game.
Santo was a product of Wrigley Field.
Santo angered some of his teammates.
Santo was a hot dog and a showboat.

[WilsonC]

I think he's clearly deserving. He's one of the most deserving players outside the Hall right now.

I also think the only reason he wasn't voted in a long time ago is one of timing. There were three elements of timing working against him:
1. He was a contemporary of Eddie Mathews and Brooks Robinson, who at the time were almost certainly the greatest offensive and the greatest defensive third-baseman of all time. He was one of the four best ever at the position when he retired, but two of the other guys in that mix played at the same time as he did.
2. He played his best years in a time when offense was at its lowest since the dead-ball era. His typical .300/.380/.500, 30, 100 season looks good by today's standards, but it was elite in the 60's.
3. His candidacy came up during a golden age for third-basemen, when the offensive context started to rise. Schmidt and Brett were in their prime in Santo's first year of eligibility, soon joined by Boggs and Molitor, and quality players like Ron Cey and Buddy Bell and Graig Nettles were going strong. Superficially, his number probably looked less impressive in such strong company than they did when he played.

Santo was one of the four best third basemen ever when he retired (along with Mathews, Robinson, and Baker) and from 1963 to 1969, he was arguably one of the three best players in baseball (along with Mays and Aaron). He didn't play long enough to reach milestones, but he was a better player than probably half the players in the Hall already.

[Old Sweater]

Wilson, if you don't already, you should write for MLB in some way. You can pinpoint a lot better then a lot of those pinheads with a pen.

[Cubs Fan]

Wilson, if you don't already, you should write for MLB in some way. You can pinpoint a lot better then a lot of those pinheads with a pen.

I agree. Those writers are horrible.

[BobH]

Wilson can plead Ron's case better than anyone I've seen. I'm one who thinks he belongs.-BH

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Santo was long overdue. He was the best thirdbasemen of his generation and I would rank him 6th or 7th best thirdbaseman of alltime. I think why it took him so long is he never won a world series and having a team like the 69 Cubs with Ernie Banks, Billy Williams and Fergie Jenkins hurt his chances due to voters felt why put 4 guys in the hall of fame who played on a team which won nothing.

What also lost votes was his cocky attitude and not alot of fans remember this but he was a scab in the 1972 strike and that kinda dug his grave.

1. Mike schmidt
2. Eddie Matthews
3. Goerge Brett
4. Wade Boggs
5. Chipper Jones-He will get alot of votes as why he's not higher but i would deff take the top 4 over him.
6. Ron Santo
7. Brooks Robinson...He's a average fans favorite but overrated
8. Pie Traynor...was ranked best thirdbasemen ever as recently as 1969
9. Homerun Baker
10. Scott Rolen...Excellant career war

I may have forgot a guy so if i did I apologize now. I still rank Alex Rodriguez as a shortstop but if I ranked him as a thirdbasemen it's a tough call on where he stands due to his history. But he would be number 1 without the baggage.

Stan Hack of the Cubs gets a honorable mention as well as Judy Johnson who played in the negroe leagues.

[AhCrap]

7. Brooks Robinson...He's a average fans favorite but overrated

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. The man was a defensive god at third. There haven't been many gloves better than his.

[Chitown Champ]

I was about to say about the same thing as AhCrap. In my opinion, Brooks Robinson may actually be underrated, or at least under appreciated. His bat was solid, even though it may be below average for hall of famers. But his glove undermined how the third base positioned was looked at defensively. Brooks was one of a kind at third.
In some ways Chipper is overrated. He had a great bat but an abysmal glove. Chipper's glove is worse than Brooks' bat and Chipper's bat may even be worse than Brooks' glove. Okay, that last sentence made more sense in my head. But the lesson is, when weighing putting both bat and glove into the analysis, Chipper has to have his bat make up for his defense (or lack thereof), but Brooks was at least viable at hitting and, as AhCrap said, a God at defense.

[Old Sweater]

Now by memory is the greatest by no means but I swear that Brooks use to head the dWAR at BR.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml

Rank Player (yrs, age) Defensive WAR Bats
1. Ozzie Smith+ (19) 43.4 B
2. Mark Belanger (18) 39.3 R
3. Brooks Robinson+ (23) 38.8 R
4. Cal Ripken+ (21) 34.5 R
5. Joe Tinker+ (15) 34.2 R
6. Luis Aparicio+ (18) 31.6 R
7. Rabbit Maranville+ (23) 30.8 R
8. Ivan Rodriguez (21) 28.7 R
Bobby Wallace+ (25) 28.7 R
10. Bill Dahlen (21) 28.5 R
11. Art Fletcher (13) 28.3 R
12. Omar Vizquel (24, 45) 28.0 B
13. Pee Wee Reese+ (16) 25.5 R
14. Gary Carter+ (19) 25.4 R
15. Bob Boone (19) 25.3 R
16. Marty Marion (13) 25.0 R
Roger Peckinpaugh (17) 25.0 R
Jim Sundberg (16) 25.0 R
19. Andruw Jones (17, 35) 24.2 R
20. George Davis+ (20) 24.1 B
21. Bill Mazeroski+ (17) 23.8 R

I went as far as Bill Mazeroski because being a fan of the glove, it don't bother me a bit as far as him making the HOF. I really hope the same holds true for the L'il "O" Man.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Now by memory is the greatest by no means but I swear that Brooks use to head the dWAR at BR.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml

Rank Player (yrs, age) Defensive WAR Bats
1. Ozzie Smith+ (19) 43.4 B
2. Mark Belanger (18) 39.3 R
3. Brooks Robinson+ (23) 38.8 R
4. Cal Ripken+ (21) 34.5 R
5. Joe Tinker+ (15) 34.2 R
6. Luis Aparicio+ (18) 31.6 R
7. Rabbit Maranville+ (23) 30.8 R
8. Ivan Rodriguez (21) 28.7 R
Bobby Wallace+ (25) 28.7 R
10. Bill Dahlen (21) 28.5 R
11. Art Fletcher (13) 28.3 R
12. Omar Vizquel (24, 45) 28.0 B
13. Pee Wee Reese+ (16) 25.5 R
14. Gary Carter+ (19) 25.4 R
15. Bob Boone (19) 25.3 R
16. Marty Marion (13) 25.0 R
Roger Peckinpaugh (17) 25.0 R
Jim Sundberg (16) 25.0 R
19. Andruw Jones (17, 35) 24.2 R
20. George Davis+ (20) 24.1 B
21. Bill Mazeroski+ (17) 23.8 R

I went as far as Bill Mazeroski because being a fan of the glove, it don't bother me a bit as far as him making the HOF. I really hope the same holds true for the L'il "O" Man.

I probaly shouldn't say Robinson was overrated because he was so good defensively but his career ops as a hitter really kills him for me.

They changed how they calculate the war on baseball referance and thats why Robinson isn't number one anymore.

I like the war stat but defensive war is kinda tough to judge in my opinion.

[Old Sweater]

I probaly shouldn't say Robinson was overrated because he was so good defensively but his career ops as a hitter really kills him for me.

They changed how they calculate the war on baseball referance and thats why Robinson isn't number one anymore.

I like the war stat but defensive war is kinda tough to judge in my opinion.

Aha! Thanks, it hadn't been that long since I checked dWAR at BR. Andruw Jones went from like 2nd or 3rd to number 19. I agree with you about the defensive metrics as shown with Andruw Jones, little more weight for some other stat and down he went.